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 EntryNo: 112
 Date: Friday
18:25
11.07.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.0.3) Gecko/2008092510 Ubuntu/8.04 (hardy) Firefox/3.0.3 203.22.197.28 (spotx.net) Greg Dickson
Firefox Australia
Thanks very much for this site.
When my neighbours moved recently they gave me their old piano. Much to my dismay, I got the same advice many people get with old pianos 'bash off the ivories that's about all that's useful'.
Being a carpenter I had thought that I could fix up the action of the piano and thought that it might be a fun project. After the tuner gave the piano the thumbs down I was disappointed but then I thought, well what have I got to lose. I lined up my keyboard next to the piano, got out a cresent and started having a go. After fiddling about for a while and getting a couple of notes ok I thought I would try and google a bit more and I stumbled upon your site. It is just what I need. I have put the cresent away and am ordering the correct equipment before I start again.
Thanks again for the advise it has given me new enthusiasm for the project and can wait to start with your instructions and the proper equipment.
I can't really afford a good piano and everyone loves a real piano, even just to play chopsticks on.

Thanks heaps your efforts.
Greg

 EntryNo: 111
 Date: Friday
04:39
11.07.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.0.3) Gecko/2008092417 Firefox/3.0.3 212.70.209.174 (212-70-209-174.dyn.adsl.tee.gr) Socrates
Firefox Greece
Thank you very much for the nice tutorial. I am getting better and better each time and my piano is always in tune.
 EntryNo: 110
 Date: Saturday
15:08
11.01.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; FunWebProducts) 76.237.1.94 (adsl-76-237-1-94.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) Lily
Internet Explorer United States of America
Thank you for demystifying this process!
 EntryNo: 109
 Date: Thursday
13:01
10.30.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.8.1.17) Gecko/20080829 Firefox/2.0.0.17 82.2.119.77 (client-82-2-119-77.brnt.adsl.virgin.net) tong
Firefox United Kingdom
Very nice advices! Many thanks!
I just tuned two third of the keys for my piano in four hours based on the introduction. I'm much quicker now.
A quick question: do we have to tune the keys all based on the middle octave rathar than the adjacent octave?
Thanks again!


Comment:
I would tune to adjacent octaves. I think it is easier to hear. Also, my theory is that your ear will automatically adjust to the natural tuning of the piano, which is not actually mathematically perfect. (See my information on "well-tempered" on my tuning page.)

 EntryNo: 108
 Date: Monday
23:55
10.27.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322) 125.162.119.102 (102.subnet125-162-119.speedy.telkom.net.id) Misterjuha
Internet Explorer Finland
Good, informative website to get started. Thanks. I have not yet tuned a piano, but will try it on my daughter's piano next time I visit her.

I also haver a hint for piano owners: place a cup of water inside the piano to keep the instrument better tuned.

 EntryNo: 107
 Date: Sunday
10:36
10.12.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR 3.0.04506) 72.154.13.243 (adsl-154-13-243.clt.bellsouth.net) Ronnie Hawkins
Internet Explorer United States of America
Thanks for the info. Everything you said I have found to be true. I am a beginner, but have tuned some bad ones. Again, thanks.
 EntryNo: 106
 Date: Tuesday
08:44
09.30.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_5; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Safari/525.20.1 70.189.28.220 (ip70-189-28-220.lf.br.cox.net) Danny Taddei
Safari United States of America
This is a great starter sight! Thanks for putting it up~
I’m not a pro tuner, I’m a pro piano player. I learned from the best though and have been tuning my own piano for years. I’ve had to or I’d sound terrible on stage and that is something I can live without.
I came to your sight to try and get a tip for failing ears. My low A and top 3 or 4 notes are more of a guess then anything these days and I was hoping to get a tip to tune those. Maybe someone will add that info.

As for what makes my life easy, (and I would only do this on an upright or spinet that stays closed) is to label the strings above the pins so I don’t grab the wrong pin. Since I am correcting notes bi-weekly (I have a heavy hand and picky ear) this cuts my time way down. Mind you, I only do this on my spinet. Grand pianos are often open and marker messing up the beauty is probably not expectable.

Pins do get old but there is oil that can be dripped onto the wood plug that helps hold the pin. I’m on my last bit of mine because it has dried up over the decades. My tuner more gave my oil to me then 35 years ago. I have no idea what it is – but it does work. (anyone know?)

Replacing strings is a hard thing to do and I have always hired someone else to do it but even then they might not be good at it either. Recently I broke a bass string and its replacement string has a terrible wolf tone. Rather then chase man down to fix it again, I opted to put a small felt wedge between the two strings to soften the sound. Over time it may settle. The felt wedge trick works well for a piano in a place where the temp and humidify change all the time. What sounds awful today may work its self out later on its own.

The most important thing that I see missing from your page is a note to take off all the coverings you can to work on the piano. When you want to do a full tune, it is best to take as much off as you can so you can see in and around the whole case. You will hear and see everything a lot better. A flashlight is also an essential tool as is a vacuum. Look in the bottom of your box next time and you’ll see why the first thing I do on a full tune is to vacuum that thing out well.

Thanks for your sight~

 EntryNo: 105
 Date: Saturday
03:05
08.30.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; fi; rv:1.9.0.1) Gecko/2008070208 Firefox/3.0.1 80.222.218.221 (dsl-tkubrasgw1-fedade00-221.dhcp.inet.fi) Mr Kari
Firefox Finland
I recently bought a cheap piano and decided to tune it myself. I've been playing guitar for 30 years, I could see no reason why I could not do it. So I found your site and got the basic info to get me going. Thank you.
The basic procedure is simple, but as you pointed out, one should not trust the electric tuner too blindly. The art of tuning, be it a guitar or a piano, is to find the right compromises to get the best possible sound out of the instrument. The two middle octaves I can tune satisfactorily with the tuner, after that I'm using my ears.

P.S. As a general recommendaton: If you have never tuned any instrument before practice with a guitar so that you certainly know what you are trying to achieve. It is difficult to break a guitar by overtuning it.

 EntryNo: 104
 Date: Wednesday
02:21
08.27.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.9.0.1) Gecko/2008070208 Firefox/3.0.1 79.16.175.35 (host35-175-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Alessandro Simonetto
Firefox United States of America
Have you a list of (economical) tuner to suggest?

Comment:
The least expensive tuning wrench I have seen in the U.S. is on Amazon. I have NOT used this tuning wrench, so I cannot comment on its quality. I do not know of a good international source. But I do not necessarily recommend cheap tuning tools, I say spend a little more for at least an "apprentice" grade tool from a reputable piano supply. Piano tuning is a very careful process. Any wiggle or give from a poorly constructed tool will be frustrating and may increase the chance of damaging a pin.

 EntryNo: 103
 Date: Tuesday
01:52
08.26.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; fr; rv:1.8.1.16) Gecko/20080702 Firefox/2.0.0.16 77.192.230.37 (37.230.192-77.rev.gaoland.net) yann
Firefox United States of America
bravo, c'est super de permettre aux pianistes de découvrir comment accorder soi meme son instrument , et de ne plus avoir ainsi a debourser 70 euros ou plus a chaque fois !

merci

 EntryNo: 102
 Date: Monday
10:55
07.28.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322) 79.123.74.227 (227.74.123.79.in-addr.arpa) Duncan Mac
Internet Explorer United Kingdom
Hello,
Delighted to find this site - exactly the information I was hoping to find, from someone I'm never likely to meet, half way round the other side of the world. Marvellous thing, this here interwebnet contraption.

Bought a piano for my daughter (and myself, if I'm honest) to learn on, got it home, very excited, called piano tuner and was horrified when he said he couldn't tune it. The problem, it seems, is 3 or 4 tiny cracks in the tuning board (the large wooden slab the pins sit in). I'm sure he's being absolutely professionally correct, but it's unplayably out of tune at the moment and I'm reluctant to recycle the piano without at least trying to get it to a point where it's at least capable of supporting a bit of basic learning. Am I kidding myself, or should I have a go?
Kind regards,
Duncan.


Comment:
If the cracks are not into the pin holes themselves, then it seems that it would hold tune at least a short while, but may not stay in tune for long. If the cracks are into the pin holes, then those pins may not hold tune at all. But, if you tune it yourself, you have absolutely nothing to lose! My page is for you!

One other idea is that if some the pins are permanently loose, you might be able to mute the affected strings but still have a string or two left for a particular note. You'll get reduced volume and richness for that note, but you might get something.

 EntryNo: 101
 Date: Wednesday
17:20
07.16.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9) Gecko/2008052906 Firefox/3.0 190.11.92.36 (host-190-11-92-36.supernet.com.bo) Thomas Gray
Firefox Bolivia
I am facing a couple pianos that are low and the piano tuner says he doesn't dare try to tune them up to pitch because the strings would probably break, and here in Bolivia it is very hard to get new strings. You mention the same concern, pointing out that doing it in small steps might do the trick. I believe that the problem is that the friction going over the bridge is what requires so much force to pull the strings' pitch up. Has anyone tried putting penetrating oil in that friction point before tuning a piano up?

Comment:
Your question is beyond my experience. I suggest the forums at pianoworld.com.

 EntryNo: 100
 Date: Monday
19:04
07.07.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.8.1.12) Gecko/20080201 Firefox/2.0.0.12 75.174.100.163 (75-174-100-163.bois.qwest.net) Jared H.
Firefox United States of America
I read this website, and it's great! I just ordered the tuning kit and tuner last week, I got the tuner today, hopefully the kit will come tomorrow! I have been working on refinishing this piano for a month, and it's beautiful now, all it needs is to be in tune!
Thanks for all the great info! Wish me luck!

 EntryNo: 99
 Date: Tuesday
05:48
07.01.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.13) Gecko/20080331 Firefox/2.0.0.13 64.236.202.64 (h-64-236-202-64.unassigned.aoltw.net) Red
Firefox United States of America
Sir,

I acquired a piano from a friend of mine who didn't have room for it in a move. I called my two local piano tuners and both of them refused to tune it.

Why?

Someone had painted it.

Without this site I may have taken their advice, landfilled it and gone back to my electronic keyboard.

 EntryNo: 98
 Date: Wednesday
23:13
06.18.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727) 83.199.173.20 (AFontenayssB-152-1-96-20.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr) steiffano
Internet Explorer France
Hi ! j'ai beaucoup apprécié tous vos conseils qui m'ont encouragés à entreprendre l'accord, puis la restauration d'un player piano SIMPLEX manufacturé à PARIS par FRANTZE vers 1905. Je vous recommande : http://www.forum-piano.org. Les accordeurs français sont très avares de renseignements. Ils ont sans doute peur de perdre leur métier et se prennent pour une élite. Mes voitures je les répare bien moi-même. Pourquoi pas mon piano ? Mais comme je débute, je suis confronté à des notes qui ne tiennent pas l'accord. J'ai essayé de descendre l'accord, mais ça tient pas. Des chevilles ovalisées qui tournent ? J'ai aussi des cordes rouillées. Certains tuyaux du système SIMPLEX sont cassés (j'irai voir mon garagiste). Sinon je ne regrette pas mon achat (50 euros sur ebay, à 30 km de chez moi avec un camion prêté équipé d'un haillon électrique, d'un tire palette et accompagné de 3 frères). Bonne continuation pour encore plus de renseignements. Musicalement, Steiffano.
 EntryNo: 97
 Date: Wednesday
09:46
06.18.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727) 67.241.249.151 (cpe-67-241-249-151.stny.res.rr.com) John King
Internet Explorer United States of America
I recently bought a tuning kit and set to work after having watched a professional do it last time. I have a good ear and I think I did a great job. I have now found your site and I did almost the procedure you state. However I used my electronic organ to start me off at middle C.

This was an experiment to see what I could do. The reason is because our church has a pipe organ and piano and the organ is slightly below pitch and would require cutting the pipes to fix---too expensive. In order to use both the organ and piano together, the piano would have to be detuned to the organ pitch and the professionals we contacted wouldn't do it. So I wanted to learn on my own piano before I attempt to detune the church piano.


Comment:
That is a very interesting reason for learning to tune pianos. Also interesting that a professional would not do it. Thanks for signing the guestbook.

 EntryNo: 96
 Date: Friday
05:43
06.13.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727) 204.218.240.94 (shap-ehs.pat.eu.dodea.edu) Tracy Gittins
Internet Explorer Belgium
Thanks for a simple, encouraging website. I'm a music teacher too, but I got my foot in the door in Europe as a librarian at a Dept. of Defense school on a NATO base in Belgium.
I laid claim to a clunker piano that had been in the kindergarten building for years. I've been able to tune it fairly well in just a few hours.
I had a set of tools back in my college days in the early 80s. I gave them to a Bolivian friend a few years ago and now he tunes dozens of pianos professionally every year. $40 or $50 is half the going rate in the states, but in Bolivia, that's a LOT of money.
Thanks for the inspiration.

 EntryNo: 95
 Date: Tuesday
21:47
06.10.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.14) Gecko/20080404 Firefox/2.0.0.14 Creative ZENcast v1.04.06 74.229.216.75 (adsl-074-229-216-075.sip.jax.bellsouth.net) tuner
Firefox United States of America
People tunings their own pianos is fine. The problem is when your new and just starting out you tend to over turn the tuning pins way too much. Effectively wrenching them out of the pin block and destroying your piano in the process. Now thats all fine and dandy when were talking about junk pianos. However you people with half way decent pianos need to find a pro. And not just anybody who calls themselves a pro. Finding a good piano tuner is a lot like finding a good automobile mechanic. Not that piano tuners are dishonest, it's that it isn't as easy and simple as just turning pins.

Destroyed pin block= piano wont hold pitch= restringing and replacing pin block= $2,000 for a piano worth 200 = firewood.

Been tuning for 15 years, it is a 100 dollar a year expense in most cases even less. Is it really worth the 100 hours you'll spend tuning it poorly?

If I didn't do this for a living I'd never tune a piano for the savings. Hobby I can almost understand.

Good luck guys


Comment:
You make excellent points. That is why I make it clear on my site that[b] tuning your own piano can be risky.[/b] I trust my visitors will read my website carefully before attempting tuning.

 EntryNo: 94
 Date: Sunday
15:25
06.08.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.14) Gecko/20080404 Firefox/2.0.0.14 68.231.4.225 (ip68-231-4-225.ph.ph.cox.net) Jewels
Firefox United States of America
Thanks this is something that has intriuged me for years... awesome information website
 EntryNo: 93
 Date: Sunday
07:52
06.08.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; Media Center PC 3.1) 75.71.170.182 (c-75-71-170-182.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Mike Cornett
Internet Explorer United States of America
Thanks so much for making this information available! After reading your brief tutorial, I successfully tuned my console piano in three evenings using a $20 Korg tuner and a tuning hammer and wedges puchased for $35.
 EntryNo: 92
 Date: Thursday
09:09
06.05.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.14) Gecko/20080404 Firefox/2.0.0.14 72.12.48.171 (72-12-48-171.static.networktel.net) Thom A
Firefox United States of America
Thanks for a great web site. I have been a pianist for nearly 50 years but have never thought of tuning one my self. 6 years ago I started studying guitar and naturally bought a good electronic tuner and found that I have developed a very good ear for tuning strings and comparing "beats". I believe its an art that can be developed. Well, last year, I had my piano tuned and I watched carefully. It didn't take the guy more than 45 minutes (it was in pitch) and he didn't tune more than 15 or 20 keys (most were still in tune). Well, after forking over $135, I thought he was making pretty good money. Well, here it is one year later and I can hear a couple of low notes getting a little flat so I thought about hiring him again until I asked about the price. $135 again, and I thought, geez, I bet I could tune those few notes if I had the equipment and a tutorial to walk me through it. That brought me to your page where everything I read, I said to myself; "yea, I understand that". So, I'm buying a hammer, a chromatic tuner, and a couple of mutes and I'll save some money. Thanks for the information. I'll let you know how it goes.
 EntryNo: 91
 Date: Friday
05:44
05.30.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648) 84.12.87.21 (timsabel.gotadsl.co.uk) Paul Sims
Internet Explorer United Kingdom
Thanks so much you are life savers!
I am ready now to get on it!
x

 EntryNo: 90
 Date: Thursday
13:04
05.15.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; YPC 3.2.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; InfoPath.1; yplus 5.1.04b) 70.142.209.122 (adsl-70-142-209-122.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) Kitty
Internet Explorer United States of America
Just what I was looking for- a way to fix the pianoes in the practice rooms between professional visits. Thanks!
 EntryNo: 89
 Date: Tuesday
05:16
05.13.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; InfoPath.1) 65.5.176.42 (adsl-065-005-176-042.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) Joshua
Internet Explorer United States of America
Thanks for the very useful piano tuning instructions. Pray for me! - I'm off to tune my first piano and I'm gonna need it.

P.S. Carl Sagan is a looney. You can't explain something that was created without its creator. :)

 EntryNo: 88
 Date: Saturday
06:58
05.10.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; FunWebProducts; .NET CLR 1.1.4322) 75.171.230.37 (75-171-230-37.hlrn.qwest.net) Melody
Internet Explorer United States of America
This is very helpful. I'd love to try it.
 EntryNo: 87
 Date: Friday
15:23
05.09.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en; rv:1.8.1.6) Gecko/20070809 Camino/1.5.1 89.180.1.219 (89-180-1-219.net.novis.pt) Pedro Miguel
Camino Portugal
Yes, I meant to say it slips!
Sorry for the mistake.
I am seating the wrench on the pins completely,
and there is no special pattern and also some pins that
the wrench fit ok early, now sometimes they seem large.

Also I have measure the pin top square and it is around 4 mm
from side to side , so isn´t this too small?
I dont see any piano wrench on the market with this measure.

About if the piano have mix pin sizes, I dont think so,
cos the professional tuner I hired 2 weeks ago, used the same tool, so...

If there was some forum or anyone around here that could help
me to figure out the right tool to buy.

I guess I could phone a professional tuner, but he would be very mad
to know I want to buy a piano wrench, cos that could mean less work for him ! :)

Another question is about if I should try to tune the piano to 440HZ cos its not at this time, the professional tuner did not do it, with the reason that could broke strings, cos its a piano from 1870.

I don´t have any idea what key he have tune to, cos today after playing around with the KORG CA30 tuner, when play the C key I get G# on the tuner!!

Thats my questions for now, it would be great
if you could open a forum here, that would be great!
I know guestbooks are not for questions! :)

Thanks so much for the help.


Comment:
I suggest you ask on the pianoworld.com forums. They will probably scold you for thinking about tuning your own piano, but they may still answer your questions.

I would guess that your piano has been untuned for a very long time, so the tuner was reluctant to tune it to 440 right away because that could very well break old strings. What you really need is probably a "pitch raise," a procedure where the tuner makes several passes over the piano over several sessions to slowly bring the piano back into a stable tuning. Some pianos that have been left untuned for a very long time may never be stable again--and many times a professional will simply refuse to attempt it.

 EntryNo: 86
 Date: Friday
12:32
05.09.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727) 65.95.148.119 (bas10-toronto63-1096782967.dsl.bell.ca) Kevin J.
Internet Explorer Canada
I have an old apartment style piano that I bought for $300 for my son to learn on, with the proviso that if he stuck with it we would invest in a better one. It was out of tune but playable, and as my son is getting better it seemed to be reaching it's limit - quickly. I couldn't justify footing a third of the value of the piano for a professional tuning, so out of curiosity I searched and found this site. I already had a Korg ca-40 tuner so thought I'd have a go.

First, the tuning hammer: Expensive for what you get, and on this piano I thought I'd try a compromise. I have a good selection of tools, so took an old 18" long 3/8" drive torque wrench, put a 5/16" hex socket on it, and reversed a 1/4" drive 5/16" socket on that. Since the pegs are 1/4" they fit the drive end perfectly and the extra length of the torque wrench gave me extra control; more leverage = less effort with more precision and control.
Wedges: I had some high-density foam lying around, so cut it to fit as a string damper. Violas!
Tuning: I initially brought all notes into reasonable pitch using the tuner (some notes in the lower register were more than a half interval off). I let it sit for a day, then tuned an octave around middle C using the tuner, and did the rest by ear - I played violin for a number of years before falling in love with the guitar, so I've got a decent ear for tuning.

Well, the piano sounds great (for what it is - an apartment / beginner piano), in fact good enough to delay a better piano and have lots of time to wait for a good sale or private deal.

All it cost me was some time. Would I do it on a Grand piano? Not a chance, but then again that will probably never be an issue for me. Will I do this piano for friends when we finally sell it to them for the same price we bought it? Absolutely!

Oh yeah, did I mention that it was great fun?


Comment:
Thanks for the good report. This is the reason I built this website!

Officially, I recommend people purchase a few quality tuning tools, mainly the wrench and a few mutes. Yes, the reversed socket wrench can work, but those pins are precious and very troublesome to replace. The good fit of a proper tuning wrench will be best for the pins. In your case, the long handle of your torque wrench is important...the short handle of a regular socket wrench is too short to give the "feel" and control you need for tuning without overworking the pins.

 EntryNo: 85
 Date: Friday
08:01
05.09.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en; rv:1.8.1.6) Gecko/20070809 Camino/1.5.1 89.180.1.219 (89-180-1-219.net.novis.pt) Pedro Miguel
Camino Portugal
Hi again!
Well, I got a 6.2 mm square tip
tunning lever. and I am having this strange problem, for some pins the wrench is too large, made it split [slip? --ed.] when try,
for others it seems that fits ok!

This makes any sense?


Comment:
I assume you meant to say it slips. Having different size pins on the same piano does not seem likely, but my experience is limited. Are you sure you are seating the wrench on the pins completely? Make sure the wrench is down on the pin as far as it will go. It's either this or you have different size pins. Are the ones that slip in the upper or lower octaves, or are they scattered about? If they are scattered among the keys in no particular pattern, there is a chance that some were replaced at some point, and the replacements were not the same size as the original. If they are in a pattern or grouped in upper or lower octaves, then it may be the piano's design.

Whatever you do, please don't risk damaging the piano. You may need to consult professional tuner.

 EntryNo: 84
 Date: Monday
16:16
05.05.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en; rv:1.8.1.6) Gecko/20070809 Camino/1.5.1 89.180.137.38 (89-180-137-38.net.novis.pt) Pedro Miguel
Camino Portugal
Hi there!
Thanks so much for the tutorial.
It really helps me to try it out.

I have a A.Bord piano from 1870 that as been on the family for around 100 years and it wasn´t tune for around 20 years, and after we paid a professional tuner 2 weeks ago, some notes just started to get out of tune!

But I am complete lost about the size on the piano wrench I should get!
I´ve tried to measure the pins, and its around 6. something Millimeters.

But I see piano wrenches on the market with 6.2 , 6.5, 6.8 or 6.9 Millimeters!

Is there any standard measure?


Comment:
Since it was not tuned for so long, it will likely keep going out of tune more frequently. If you keep tuning it, it may eventually stabilize if it is in good shape otherwise.

I don't know how the pins are sized in mm. The vendors I have used usually number them, "#2 star head" for example. I am sure the # relates to a specific mm or inches size, but I have not seen the details. A piano tuning textbook might go into that.

One of the online vendors I recommend, like http://www.pianosupplies.com /Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Scre en=SFNT&Store_Code=P&Affilia te=sdetwiler might be able to help you get it straight.

 EntryNo: 83
 Date: Tuesday
20:11
04.29.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR 3.0.04506) 68.29.121.56 (68-29-121-56.area4.spcsdns.net) Terry Craycraft
Internet Explorer United States of America
You made comment about knowing exact frequencies being difficult. Not really. By using the scientific calculator in Microsoft Windows ( or store bought scientific calculator), you simply do 2 to the 1/12 power or the 12th root of 2. Every musical note is precisely higher than the previous note by the 12th root of 2 which is 1.05946309436...... This multiplied by itself 12 times (actually 11 )ends up EXACTLY 2.000000... ( using the many place calculator value.)Then using A at 440.00.. Hertz, you multiply each result by 1.05946309 to get the next note, until you end up exactly double. Then these twelve values are multiplied or divided by 2 to get each octaves frequency EXACTLY. Then with a Mic and frequency counter you can tune to precise values if wanted. But if you do that, your piano will sound "sterile" as I found out. It needs the "character" of being slightly "stretched" either way when tuning.
 EntryNo: 82
 Date: Sunday
14:53
04.27.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; Media Center PC 4.0; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648; .NET CLR 3.5.21022) 68.219.15.190 (adsl-219-15-190.asm.bellsouth.net) Barry
Internet Explorer United States of America
Thanks for this informative tutorial. I have always wanted to know how to do it and you have pointed the way. I will be using a computer program called "TuneIt" to help me with the tuning process! It works very well for tuning my hand crafted Native American flutes.
 EntryNo: 81
 Date: Sunday
06:30
03.30.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; AOL 9.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727) 64.12.117.78 (cache-mtc-af14.proxy.aol.com) Bryce Jennings
AOL United States of America
In my research of piano tuning, this site is number one. I went out on my own and tuned my piano and it was a success. Thank you very much for your instructions.
 EntryNo: 80
 Date: Tuesday
13:00
03.18.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.12) Gecko/20080201 Firefox/2.0.0.12 68.61.19.47 (c-68-61-19-47.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Tony
Firefox United States of America
I just got the Grover-Trophy Piano Tuning Hammers (Star Head) from Amazon.
It is too big for my piano's tuning pins.
Does anyone know anything about the Grover lever? I called the retailer Woodwind and Brasswind, but they didn't know what size the tip was. I thought it was standard. I just have a Jasper American Piaon- upright model # 435F. Can anyone help?


Comment:
Try asking the staff at pianosupplies.com, the retailer I link on the front page. Their staff might be able to recommend the correct size. You probably just need the next size down, though I do not know how the numbering system goes.

 EntryNo: 79
 Date: Wednesday
06:38
03.12.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322) 24.106.67.22 (rrcs-24-106-67-22.central.biz.rr.com) Bob Spicer
Internet Explorer United States of America
Thanks for putting such great info on the web. We've had a Kimball console piano for many years and since moving a couple years ago it is really out of tune. You
answered all my questions about tuning it myself. I already have an electronic tuner I use for other instruments, now I know what to order for my tools.
Great website!!!!

 EntryNo: 78
 Date: Tuesday
19:23
03.04.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; fr) AppleWebKit/523.12.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0.4 Safari/523.12.2 90.35.50.191 (AVelizy-154-1-108-191.w90-35.abo.wanadoo.fr) SERGE QUINTELA
Safari France
Désolé, mais votre site est une mauvaise idée, car il fait croire qu'il est facile d'accorder un piano sans être un professionnel. Si vous aviez fait la même chose avec la chirurgie... je vous laisse imaginer les conséquences.
sq.


Comment:
Thanks for your comment.

Google Translation : "[i]Sorry, but your site is a bad idea, because it suggests that it is easy to give a piano without being a professional. If you had done the same thing with the surgery ... I let you imagine the consequences[/i]."

I respond: My page is very clear: this method will not replace the skills of a professional tuner. I also try to make it clear to the reader that there is a measure of risk. But I believe that with care and proper tools a novice can do some limited tuning.

 EntryNo: 77
 Date: Sunday
05:01
03.02.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/523.15.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0.4 Safari/523.15 71.204.136.12 (c-71-204-136-12.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Jeff Orsi
Safari United States of America
Way to go! You gave me the push I needed to attempt this so called "dreadful feat". Your advice was very realistic and comprehensive. It allowed me to bring my 1906 spinet back into a good overall tuning so it can now be a part of the jam session in my house. Thank you so much for posting a site like this! I even purchased tools & equipment that you supplied links to. EXCELLENT!!!

Comment:
Thanks for your report of success!

 EntryNo: 76
 Date: Wednesday
16:27
02.06.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.6) Gecko/20071115 Firefox/2.0.0.6 LBrowser/2.0.0.6 76.115.53.234 (c-76-115-53-234.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Joaq
Firefox United States of America
I'm glad I found your guide
help me tune my Piano with not damage what so ever

Thank you

 EntryNo: 75
 Date: Sunday
15:19
01.20.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727) 75.60.193.172 (adsl-75-60-193-172.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net) Jason in Gahanna Ohio
Internet Explorer United States of America
I decided to tune my old great-grandmothers piano that I inherited. Its a Jesse French & Sons piano from 1890s. I play frequently, and am tired of the out of tune strings. Your info helped me to determine I can do the tuning myself. Also, have the church piano and a few others in mind, when I buy the necessary tools. Thanks for the info online.
 EntryNo: 74
 Date: Sunday
02:36
01.13.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/522.11.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0.3 Safari/522.12.1 222.131.64.224 (222.131.64.224) Jeremy
Safari United States of America
Thanks for posting this site! I find the comments about having by tune by ear quite amusing, owing to the fact that I have perfect pitch. Dad says that he can't get the piano tuned when I'm around because I'd drive the tuner crazy!

I have a Roland digital with Steinway soundchip in it, and an acoustic piano directly opposite to it, so I'm anxious to get it tuned so I can play duets.

Thanks,
Jeremy

 EntryNo: 73
 Date: Friday
14:27
01.11.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11 172.190.37.66 (ACBE2542.ipt.aol.com) Mark Adame
Firefox United States of America
I am glad I found your guide. I have an old Kimball console piano that had been placed on the sidewalk for grabs. It was/ is banged up weathered, and probably not played for MANY years. It was inhabited by mice or rats who left droppings and food stores throughout the interior. Against my better judgement I brought it to my shop at work because every key sounded, but was in dire need of tuning. I paid a local tuner his $80 fee + a $20 tip for the unsanitary nature of the piano and his effort. Now it has a new lease on life and brings me joy during my breaks and off hours. Of course it will go out of tune eventually and I am going to attempt to do the tuning myself with the help of your guide. Thanks,
Mark Adame.

 EntryNo: 72
 Date: Friday
07:31
01.11.2008
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20061027 66.38.212.35 (h66-38-212-35.gtconnect.net) Patrice Remy
Mozilla United States of America
Just to let you know that a book mentioned on your webpage, is also available for free (zipped html archive):

Piano Tuning: A Simple and Accurate Method for Amateurs by J. Cree Fischer

17571-h.zip

see:
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebo oks/17571

Thanks!,

 EntryNo: 71
 Date: Thursday
11:03
01.10.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322) 69.116.7.237 (ool-457407ed.dyn.optonline.net) Jean B.
Internet Explorer United States of America
You are a doll!!! I never knew you can get this info on a website. I just got an old spinet piano and tunning gets to be so expensive after a while! I want to learn to do it on my piano at least twice a year! I love my piano and want to maintain it (on the cheaper side that is!). Even though it's an old spinet, I love it! It's my piano!
 EntryNo: 70
 Date: Thursday
23:12
01.03.2008
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; Wanadoo 7.1 ; NaviWoo1.1; Wanadoo 7.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; IE7-01NET.COM-1.1; IE7-01NET.COM-1.1) 83.114.105.173 (ASte-Genev-Bois-152-1-39-173.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) Daniel
Internet Explorer United States of America
Tank's for all ,it' a good teaching to repair and tune a "pianoforte " and have a good year 2008.
Daniel from France .

 EntryNo: 69
 Date: Thursday
15:10
12.13.2007
Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/523.12 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0.4 Safari/523.12 71.245.186.139 (pool-71-245-186-139.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) C.P.
Safari South Africa
I was really surprised to get so much info on your webpage about tuning the piano!

So many professional tuners are trying to keep the "art" to themselves.

I have just bought an antique (1902) Pleyel piano which has been severely neclected. With your help I managed to tune it myself (without an electronic tuner).

This old piano now once again provides hours of pleasure for my family.

Thanks for your help.


Comment:
[Submitted via email]

 EntryNo: 68
 Date: Friday
08:44
11.30.2007
Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.1.10) Gecko/20071115 Firefox/2.0.0.10 81.50.110.250 (APoitiers-156-1-31-250.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) marion hoogesteger
Firefox France
Thank you! My Bosendorfer grand had two notes out of tune completely. Got them perfect, thanks to your instructions
 EntryNo: 67
 Date: Friday
17:29
11.23.2007
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071025 Firefox/2.0.0.9 71.131.190.250 (adsl-71-131-190-250.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) Greg Baker
Firefox United States of America
Scott, Well it looks like I reinvented the wheel! I used your method to bring an old player piano up to pitch, only I didn't know it was your idea. LOL I'm 68 years young and have played saxophone, violin and guitar, built and repaired a few, and worked as a boat builder. Now I getting into repairing and tuning pianos next I have to learn to play the darn thing. Greg
 EntryNo: 66
 Date: Tuesday
14:57
11.20.2007
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; MSN 2.5; Windows NT 5.0; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; yplus 5.1.04b) 76.213.115.28 (adsl-76-213-115-28.dsl.okcyok.sbcglobal.net) Charles Blake
Internet Explorer United States of America
I enjoyed reading your take on tuning a piano. I am a piano tech. You have some good points and tips. I do recommend the "fine" tuning be left to the professional though. There is much more to a great tone than just tuning. The hammers, the action regulation and such. Thanks for giving folks the "push" to try it themselves.

Comment:
Thanks for your comment. Tuning strings is where it all begins, and people are curious about it. But I do realize, and try to try to make it clear at the beginning of my site, that my simplified approach will never take the place of a professional tuning.

 EntryNo: 65
 Date: Wednesday
05:40
11.14.2007
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; Parsons Corporation V6sp1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 1.0.3705) 64.9.27.194 (64.9.27.194) Evgeny
Internet Explorer United States of America
Thanks for the great info on piano tuning.
 EntryNo: 64
 Date: Monday
07:50
11.12.2007
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; InfoPath.2; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30) 198.102.62.250 (dwp.esri.com) Mr. Tumnus
Internet Explorer United States of America
This site is a great resource for those of us looking to learn how this is done... thanks!
 EntryNo: 63
 Date: Sunday
15:46
10.21.2007
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; FunWebProducts; SV1; YPC 3.2.0; PeoplePal 3.0; yplus 5.6.04b) 72.78.181.194 (pool-72-78-181-194.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Paul
Internet Explorer United States of America
Thanks for the information on tuning. I ordered the hammer, wedges, and the tuner you recomended. Took me about 2-1/2 hours to tune. Sounds great and was fun. Thanks again.
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